there are two ways to deal with that -- build another fiscal cliff to put on pressure, which puts us right back where we are, or have a default mechanism which has policy set aside that both sides do not like. one thing about the baseline -- under current law, if the congress packed its bags right now and went away, at the end of the 10-year period our debt to gdp ratio would be under 1%. he would definitely solve the deficit problem. >> under 1%? >> i believe. >> the percentage of your debt -- not the deficit to gdp? >> debt to gdp. now, we do not want to get there that way. the same way we do not want to go over the fiscal class. the fiscal cliff is big austerity -- you get $7 trillion in deficit reduction over 10 years. but you do not do it you really want to do it. when it comes to the baseline, you have to work together as part of an agreement to get to the right baseline. that does not mean it is not real world deficit-reduction. it is. does it mean it is better than current law? maybe not. but there is agreement that current law, including the fiscal cliff, is not the best way